btyirin

Hello everybody. I'm new here and this is my first post. I'm getting right into it because I just had to throw out 2 weeks of work. I need help. This is my table that I built 8 years ago. I built it as a "test" table. Practicing up for the real one. Well, this one became the real one.





So 8 years later I decide I want to build some more and try my hand selling them on eBay. And being the older and smarter woodworker I am today! I blasted right through the veneer on the new table and ruined it! Sigh. Here is a pic before the inlays went in of the new (dead) table.




On the original one. I used a 3/4 birch ply core. 1/4 oak ply sections. 1/4 solid cherry inlay strips. Center piece is Ipe. I used Mahogany and Maple for the outer caps with Cherry underneath. I actually used a belt sander! to bring the cherry strips down to the level of the oak ply (like a fool) but as you can see it worked back then. I had white knuckles though. I was very lucky.

I decided this time I would use a block plane and take the cherry down the slow and safe way. I went through the veneer about 2 inches from the edge of the table. No problem. I'll make the table smaller and turn it into a coffee type (cocktail table) But I ended up sanding through it a few more times. It's junk now. Maybe the veneer was thicker back then, I don't know. It was about a 64th I think. Home depot stuff.

I want to start over again pronto. I'd love to use solid wood this time but I'm afraid of it moving and cracking and gapping. It's too much much work to try it again this way. And too much of a risk. I'm deathly afraid to use veneer again. Any ideas on how to do this with out worry of going through the veneer. Any thoughts at all.

Btw. I have mostly finish carpenter tools. No planer or jointer. Maybe I was just being careless and rushing it. Maybe bad luck. But I need a better plan of attack for the 3rd table. which I need to start very soon.

Thanks guys.

Brian

btyirin

So far all I can think of doing is getting myself one of those expensive little mini planes. Around 100 bucks I think. Which should minimize the danger of tilting the plane and digging in with the edge (grr) I think those little ones are about 3/4 inch wide or less. getting it as close as possible with that. Maybe scraping the rest?

I'm new at using both of those tools. Some practice will be in order. I have saved the ruined top to practice on.

I could also try to cut the inlays to the perfect height but in a run that long I doubt that I'll get it perfect with just my table saw.

My other thought was to somehow put some strips on the outer edges of the plane. To protect it from going to deep. Ride those on the left and right sides of the inlay strips.

Maybe practice is on order.

smitty1967

Hey Brian...welcome aboard. I have to say that your 8 y/o 'practice' piece is awesome, to begin with. Too bad you had some bad luck with the more recent one.

I think you're on the right track with the above quote. Not knowing too much about how you made the top, let me just suggest that plenty of patience and precision (which shows in the picture of the more recent top) should lead you to being able to trim down some narrow strips of cherry for the inlay, without worrying about sanding them to match the core surface.

Look it over again, slow and steady, and be prepared to throw out a few strips of cherry and not the whole top, and I think you'll get there.

good luck, and come back with some other pics...
smitty

btyirin

Thanks Smitty. I am out of material to start another top. But the base has to get done too and that is a mirror image of the top. So, I'll go at it with the intention of getting a perfect fit this time. It'll be another oak table.

If I can get a perfect system down.......I'd like to try doing it with Tiger Maple. Give it that tree trunk look. Or I could run the grain the opposite way with the oak this time.

Thoughts of inlaying some words or a poem of some sort in the outer capping have entered my mind too. maybe some brass powder and epoxy. Give it a golden letter look.

It never stops in my head. And there isn't enough time in the day. But we try. Thanks for your input.

smitty1967

and just so you know, you've given me some inspiration. I am by no means a rank amateur, neither am I a seasoned professional....just a hobbyist. But a friend/co-worker of mine has been after me to build him a poker table. He hosts Texas Hold-em tourneys twice a year in a groub he belongs too. The thing he was worried most about was spills on the table, so I suggest to him that on these kidney-shaped tables, each player's station could be a lift-out, felt covered panel. That way, if anybody got sloppy or p.o.'ed, one panel could be recovered instead of the whole playing surface. You follow? I hope so, because methinks I've just figured out how to do it....

thanks for the post and the ideas.
smitty

Shamus

Very nice work and a ton of patience.

I do a considerable amount of veneer work, mostly restoration. As an FYI, Pre 1800's, veneers typically were 1/4" thick. Today all veneer manufacturing is mechanized, with the most common thicknesses as follows:.... 0.50mm (1/50"), 0.55mm (1/46"), 0.60mm 1/42", 0.65mm 1/39", and 0.70mm (1/36")...

I order all my stock 1/16" thick. I would much rather pay extra than throw out the entire project because of a major oops. Been there, ain't goin there again.

If you haven't already looked, there are many books available on this topic. It's sort of a lost art except for the few that do it as a hobby. There just isn't a huge demand, although I guarantee it pays to know a good process.

I usually start with the inlay proud by a 1/32" and use a variable speed random orbit sander to bring everything flush. Slow speed and fine grit. It does take time, you can't rush the sanding process. I finish with a block of wood and several hours with very fine grit.

In my opinion, a belt sander is not something I'd recommend, nor a planer.

Just my ol' 2¢

mmwood_1

Your first table is beautiful. A great example of what can be done with patience, and no fancy tools. I also encourage you to follow your vision. However, don't be too surprised if the bids you get on ebay are far less than you want to sell it for. Make sure you post a minimum. In my experience, you will get a lot of people looking for 'bargains', not fine woodworking at a reasonable rate of pay. Good luck.

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http://markmeyerwoodworking.com

TheRecklessOne

btyirin...I'm only 24 so I've got a lot to learn, but I've seen my grandpa inlay wooden logos in hardwood floors. Its a bit different because the logos come rectangular, circular, oval, and other basic shapes. Your not dealing with basic shapes, but just for giggles this may help. After tapping the piece into the shallow he starts at a corner or a small side with a piece of flat aluminum flashing and uses a japanese flush cut saw (I got mine for 20 bucks). The aluminum protects the surface of the floor and he cuts it almost level to the floor like that. The inlays are about 1/4 inch proud before he starts cutting. After that he sands it perfectly flush. I know they make small flush cut saws so smaller maybe better in that case. I don't even own any hand saws unless its Japanese traditional style saw...I've seen them work wonders and pull stroke saws are way easier to control...

TheRecklessOne

By the way your first table is gorgeous. So gorgeous it took away from my picture ledge post...

btyirin

Hey Guys. Thanks a lot for your input. Life has thrown a curve ball at me and I have not been working on that table at all. But now I'm back at it.

I'm going to try to get the inlays as close as possible right off the table saw. I think a block and sandpaper is the safest way to go. The Japanese flush cut saw would work great for the center piece and for the 2 rings in the second "defuct" table. Because I cannot rip a 1/4 x 1/4 inch curved piece on the table saw. Thats silly.

I'm starting off with the base this time since I still haven't gotten more materials for another top. I'll post some pics up after its done and let you guys know which technique worked best for me.

Thanks for the compliments and advice. I really appreciate it

btyirin

Scraping turned out to be the safest and if not the best way for this particular job. I cut the 1/4 x 1/4 inlays as close as I could and left them a little proud of the oak veneer. For giggles I grabbed a razor blade and went at it. I was shocked at how well and fast, it took it down to the perfect height. It also took all the glue marks off and I do believe any furthur sanding is not necessary. It did a perfect job all by itself.

Close up of one strip done.





You can really see how thin that damn veneer is next to the 1/4 in deep inlay. I have no idea how I made it though the first table 8 years ago with a belt sander. And I'm never going to find out either. I'm going to put some music on and slowly scrape the whole top. Probably take about 4 hours. 4 good hours too. I actually enjoyed the scraping process. watching and feeling the shavings come off is rewarding.

LaurelLaneWoodWorks

I have not tried my hand at inlays...yet. I keep looking at them and wondering if I have the patience to do the correctly. I think I will practice with some scrap and make something sensible but also a nice piece to practice with as well.

GeorgeC

I very much like the concept of your project. Your comment " I want to start over again pronto. I'd love to use solid wood this time but I'm afraid of it moving and cracking and gapping." is very true, especially with oak. I have had a splitting and shrinking proglem with solid oak. Maybe storing the pieces in an air conditioned environment for a few months first would help.

George

Gerry KIERNAN

That's a beutiful "practice piece" Brian. Welcome to the forum. I was going to suggest using a router to level the inlays, but it sounds like you have hit the perfect answer with your razor scraper.

Gerry

btyirin

Hey guys. Yeah, the scraping method works wonders! I can't it took 12 years for me to try it. Better late then never. The base is done and tomorrow I start the top again. I should have a finished table by next weekend if I can acquire some more leg material. I'll post some pics up when I get to that point.

I am having so much fun building this one as it seems all of the "risk" of going through the veneer has been taken out of the picture. It's just fun now. I real nice feeling. It still sad to look at the messed up table because it had really cool looking grain. I spent forever today buying more ply for the next one. Yes, I was the 'guy' that moved a 2 foot tall stack of ply to find the best looking piece at Home Depot. And at ............and then again at the same Home depot. It was like a workout. But I got a couple good ones.

I can't wait to start the legs. I've decided to go for that Sam look and join them at the sharpest point of the curve. I'm thinking of pegging them with contrasting plugs too.

I really don't like oak, but it's all that most home improvement type stores carry good enough for furniture. And doesn't cost a fortune. I'd love to make one like this someday in Tiger Maple. But for now its oak and mahogany. Which works good if you look at it as (open grained) species hanging out together.

Thanks for the compliments again.

GeorgeC

Have you looked at walllumber.com for the price of lumber other than oak? I think you will find some interesting woods for not much more than you are paying for oak at your local lumber yard.

I frequently buy from them and am very pleased. Once on a trip to North Carolina I went buy their yard. A very interesting place.

George

Handyman

That's a great looking table. I have never tried my hand at inlaying before. I think it scares me a little. I am always in antique shops looking for furniture and am always drawn to the inlaid pieces. It just amazes me how they did that without power tools.

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Fixer of all things broke
Expert = Drip under pressure

btyirin

Hey guys. It took awhile but I'm almost done the new table. Some final shaping and a half inch round over bit will be used over all edges. The inlays on the base are totally flush, no sand through. I still have to get the top flush though. And to be honest.......I'm scared to death! The stress is over powering the love of building the table. And that makes me sad. Using Oak plywood was a mistake. Its a design flaw as far as I'm concerned. Not worth the risk. I will have to learn to veneer so I can work with a full 1/16 inch thickness and not have "white knuckles" and be terrified of ruining the project.

So I kind of feel foolish getting this far into the table having not faced my fear of sand through. Every other aspect of building it is safe.

I ended up using almost all of the techniques we talked about so thank you all. With the complex shapes of the top......the razor scraping is not enough. I made a router jig to get all the inlays close. The was a safe method with no risk. I worked with a sand block a lot. Now I am so close that I must use the razor. Some parts of the inlays are flush and others are not. The scares me because I didn't want to over lap and then (BOOM) go through. It's going to come to head tomorrow though. success or fail. I'll know tomorrow. I am never building a table like this again, lol. Unless its a thicker veneer that I apply myself.

Here's a few pics of the progress. I added some inlays in the legs to separate the joints in the legs. I was trying to keep the grain going in the same directions this time. I splined the mahogany base together and decided to let them show through as well. I'm done with the details though. You have to stop somewhere. All that is left is a center piece and some type of trim around the extreme bottom. It's hard to see the inlays before the finish obviously. But I'll post a finish pic as well. Thanks again for all your input.

(PS. I do not recommend doing it this way if you value your sanity)

smitty1967

Brian:

That thing is awesome, Man! Great job...good work, great eye for detail, obviously a lot of patience! Good on you. Like I said in one of my earlier posts on the topic...you are definately an inspiration to some of us.

Thanks for the updates and pics, and I'm sure I speak for most of us when I say we can't wait to see it with some color and shine on it.

Keep up the good work.
smitty

btyirin

Thanks again Smitty. Speaking of color and a shine..........I'm open to suggestions. First table has several coats of Poly semi gloss on it. I brushed it on. Original also has a huge layer of dust on the base. I'm going to skip that on the new table. I was thinking about wipe on poly for this one. I have never used it before. So any input is welcome.

Thick finishes don't look very good but I could benefit from one because I'm sure I will bail at some point leveling the inlays. So a thick finish might make all the difference in a smooth surface in the end. At the cost of that 'plastic' look.

I really don't have much knowledge about finishes. I do want the table to be tough, like mine. I put cold glasses of water on my table all the time. Leave them there over night. lol. no problems. Cat sleeps on it too. Don't care. Poly is good for that.

Has anyone ever used an oil before the poly? I have heard of mixing them together but I don't know why and I haven't seen anything like that in person. Maybe a better question is what would you finish it with and why?