table saw arbor bearings - Page 2 - Woodworking Talk - Woodworkers Forum

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post #21 of 33 Old 01-04-2013, 05:59 AM
where's my table saw?
 
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Check these out

You can get the whole assembly for about $55.00 and less for separate parts: http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_trks...at=0&_from=R40

I would like to see your existing parts laid out or slipped on a 5/8" shaft to see what the outside dimensions are compared to one another. A digital micrometer from Harbor Freight is about $20.00 and will serve more than one purpose: http://www.harborfreight.com/4-inch-...per-47256.html

Apparently the original bearings were snug in the arbor and the replacements too loose?
Do the dimensions on the new bearings description match the original? Also were you able to do a live test of the assembly after you used the bearing retaining goop to see if it all works OK without any strange noises. Who knows, it may be fine as you have it and all this angst is for naught...

The answer to your question will only be as detailed and specific as the question is detailed and specfic. Good questions also include a sketch or a photo

Last edited by woodnthings; 01-04-2013 at 06:15 AM.
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post #22 of 33 Old 01-04-2013, 07:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yellowcat View Post
I am noticing some bearings have a tiny bit of variation in the size they state on there specs. I thought all bearings were suppose to made to exact sizes when you cross referenced to different brands. I do not know if they measured this right when they added this to there descriptions or what..but look for example of these two brands of supposedly the same size of 5/8" 6202 bearings. Look at the ID part

Is it strange its a .003 difference or normal?


http://www.woodys-auto-supply.com/au...rod=BCA-202FFB


http://www.ebay.com/itm/2-6202-5-8-2...item1e7580f7cd
-----------------------------------------------------------
Is there a reason the bearings in the second attachment you listed won't work?
http://www.ebay.com/itm/2-6202-5-8-2...80f7cd&afsrc=1

In my opinion this whole mess should be a good lesson for the future to take the old bearings to a local bearing supply and have them size them for correct replacements.
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post #23 of 33 Old 01-05-2013, 01:28 AM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by woodnthings View Post
You can get the whole assembly for about $55.00 and less for separate parts: http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_trks...at=0&_from=R40

I would like to see your existing parts laid out or slipped on a 5/8" shaft to see what the outside dimensions are compared to one another. A digital micrometer from Harbor Freight is about $20.00 and will serve more than one purpose: http://www.harborfreight.com/4-inch-...per-47256.html

Apparently the original bearings were snug in the arbor and the replacements too loose?
Do the dimensions on the new bearings description match the original? Also were you able to do a live test of the assembly after you used the bearing retaining goop to see if it all works OK without any strange noises. Who knows, it may be fine as you have it and all this angst is for naught...

I finally got in my shop today to test the arbor housing assembly. I slipped on the pulley..put a belt around it a motor sitting on the workbench. I ran it holding the arbor housing by hand no doubt (hoping the belt would not fly off and wrap around my head ) twice...once about 3 minutes nonstop.....then again about 10 minutes nonstop. The first time it ran good with no noticeable loud noises coming from the bearing....only when I turned it off and checked it out, the flange was very warm....I am guessing about 140 degrees. So I decided then to run it longer. That is when I turned the motor back on and let it run about 10 minutes nonstop. The flange this time was a lot hotter..so hot you grabbed it by the palm and after about 5 seconds you wanted to let go. Not sizzling to fry you hand like that...but I figure the temperature of the flange had to be about 180-200F. The pulley side was not so hot..pulley was not but just warm maybe...the arbor shaft itself was not that hot..it was just warm on both side...not hot like the flange part was. Would this be normal to heat up like this? Since I let it run so long nonstop?


As when you asked if the old bearings were fitting loose in the arbor housing ..they were not loose..but they were not tight also. When I tapped out the arbor from the housing..one bearing stayed on the arbor...so no real way to tell if that one was a really tight press fit. But the other side which the bearing remained on the pulley end with the bearing cover..I pushed that one out by just pushing it out with my thumb. These new Federal Mogul bearings I put in (202FFB) was loose in the arbor housing..I am guessing about .002. If anyone has a craftsman saw like this can you reply if you replaced the bearings and give the brand of bearings you used? thanks
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post #24 of 33 Old 01-06-2013, 02:38 AM Thread Starter
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I finally got in my shop today to test the arbor housing assembly. I slipped on the pulley..put a belt around it a motor sitting on the workbench. I ran it holding the arbor housing by hand no doubt (hoping the belt would not fly off and wrap around my head ) twice...once about 3 minutes nonstop.....then again about 10 minutes nonstop. The first time it ran good with no noticeable loud noises coming from the bearing....only when I turned it off and checked it out, the flange was very warm....I am guessing about 140 degrees. So I decided then to run it longer. That is when I turned the motor back on and let it run about 10 minutes nonstop. The flange this time was a lot hotter..so hot you grabbed it by the palm and after about 5 seconds you wanted to let go. Not sizzling to fry you hand like that...but I figure the temperature of the flange had to be about 180-200F. The pulley side was not so hot..pulley was not but just warm maybe...the arbor shaft itself was not that hot..it was just warm on both side...not hot like the flange part was. Would this be normal to heat up like this? Since I let it run so long nonstop?


As when you asked if the old bearings were fitting loose in the arbor housing ..they were not loose..but they were not tight also. When I tapped out the arbor from the housing..one bearing stayed on the arbor...so no real way to tell if that one was a really tight press fit. But the other side which the bearing remained on the pulley end with the bearing cover..I pushed that one out by just pushing it out with my thumb. These new Federal Mogul bearings I put in (202FFB) was loose in the arbor housing..I am guessing about .002. If anyone has a craftsman saw like this can you reply if you replaced the bearings and give the brand of bearings you used? thanks

I added a photo with the part which was getting very warm and arrow pointing to it.

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post #25 of 33 Old 01-06-2013, 11:32 AM
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no heat

i think, no matter what, you need to take this apart, clean out the locktite, (without scoring the the metal with your scraper), and start over. your arbor shaft may get warm from a lot of use, but it should NEVER get hot enough to burn you.
use you $20 harbor freight calipers to measure the opening. do this 5 or 6 times around the hole. hopefully it will be same measurement all around. then compare your numbers with what the size should be. as everybody has been saying, this bearing should slide in with enough resistance that hand pressure wont be enough.
if the hole is to big, it's wore out. repairing it would be more than replacing it.
Ed
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post #26 of 33 Old 01-06-2013, 05:58 PM Thread Starter
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i think, no matter what, you need to take this apart, clean out the locktite, (without scoring the the metal with your scraper), and start over. your arbor shaft may get warm from a lot of use, but it should NEVER get hot enough to burn you.
use you $20 harbor freight calipers to measure the opening. do this 5 or 6 times around the hole. hopefully it will be same measurement all around. then compare your numbers with what the size should be. as everybody has been saying, this bearing should slide in with enough resistance that hand pressure wont be enough.
if the hole is to big, it's wore out. repairing it would be more than replacing it.
Ed

ok..lets say the bearings inner ring has a diameter of .625". What should the diameter of the shaft be? Should it be exact same size or few thousandths smaller? Or should the shaft diameter be exactly .625" and the inner bearing ring be a few thousandths smaller? As the hole being wore out..I am not sure which hole you are referring to and I can not see how it got wore out...its made of cast iron.
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post #27 of 33 Old 01-07-2013, 05:35 PM
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ok..lets say the bearings inner ring has a diameter of .625". What should the diameter of the shaft be? Should it be exact same size or few thousandths smaller? Or should the shaft diameter be exactly .625" and the inner bearing ring be a few thousandths smaller? As the hole being wore out..I am not sure which hole you are referring to and I can not see how it got wore out...its made of cast iron.
If a person googles bearing fit, interference fit or anything along those lines he will have in front of him more information than the average person ever wanted to know about classification of bearing to shaft fits. Also keep in mind they refer to size difference in tens of thousandths and fractions of microns with a micron being one one thousandth of a mm.

To make a long story short, in this application, we are looking for a light interference fit. In some circles that would be called a "push fit" ie you can push the bearing in or out with your fingers just as you did originally while another may fall off if all it's ducks get aligned just right in a straight row.

So to answer your question, the shaft should be approximately the same diameter as the diameter of the inner bearing race (ring) + or - 0.00001" . The outer race (ring) outside diameters should be approximately the same diameter as the bore they insert into + or - 0.0001. This would be perfect for a push fit when the two are equal temperatures. The difference in the numbers of zeros has to do with difference in diameters.

Keep in mind that a interference fit is referred to a press fit and commonly has 0.0015" - 0.002" / inch of diameter on the tight side and assembled with hydraulic press or other shade tree methods of assembly. If we had that on our saws dis assembly for repairs would be very difficult.

So a person may wonder why these bearing races (rings) don't spin and ruin everything. Well they can and if the bearings get bad enough where the balls try to mount each other they sometimes do but also realize we have belt tension that is a factor in this equation.

Axial run out - yes with this price of equipment possibly just a little. On space equipment maybe not.
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post #28 of 33 Old 01-07-2013, 09:48 PM
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I found this

Maybe it would be better at this point to start over with this:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-Craf...item257949be7b

The answer to your question will only be as detailed and specific as the question is detailed and specfic. Good questions also include a sketch or a photo
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post #29 of 33 Old 01-08-2013, 05:42 AM Thread Starter
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Maybe it would be better at this point to start over with this:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-Craf...item257949be7b

I would buy it if it had new bearings in it and the shaft had no run-out...but you know when you buy these used junkers on ebay they are out of worn out saws that need everything nearly replaced just like what I am working on my own. I think what my problem was I picked up a pear of old bearing which was sitting on the shelf for years and plus they was the wrong size of the OD.

Today I popped out the arbor to start over and man oh man does that Loctite 680 work. That stuff locked in the bearings so tight they both stayed in after the arbor was punched out...breaking and bending the external snap ring for the bottom bearing and also the center E-clip. I sure wish I had some spares..I not have any and no stores around here sell any.
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post #30 of 33 Old 01-11-2013, 02:21 AM Thread Starter
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I got some of those bearings they sell over on eb**..the cheap ones made in China...they claimed to fit craftsman table saws like mine. Just wanted to try them for the heck of it.Wouldn't you know they were loose in the housing just like the others....even though they claimed to be 6202ZZ bearings this time. I am guessing they are about .002" undersized. Be careful when buying China crap.
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post #31 of 33 Old 01-11-2013, 05:25 AM
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TSC near by?

Quote:
Originally Posted by yellowcat View Post
I would buy it if it had new bearings in it and the shaft had no run-out...but you know when you buy these used junkers on ebay they are out of worn out saws that need everything nearly replaced just like what I am working on my own. I think what my problem was I picked up a pear of old bearing which was sitting on the shelf for years and plus they was the wrong size of the OD. . I sure wish I had some spares..I not have any and no stores around here sell any.
I found some 5/8" bore bearings for my jointer, (same as the table saw) on the rack near the hydraulic stuff. They fit perfectly. If they don't you can bring them back OR take your arbor and housing along and try them.... usually nice folks there. http://www.tractorsupply.com/bearing...-8-in--1196105
Tractor Supply Corporation, TSC

These are ISO made bearings, http://www.ebay.com/itm/2-6202-5-8-2...item1e7580f7cd

and these: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Qty-2-6202-2...item5ae7bf9254

From what I'm seeing the OD is now in metric, 35mm. I wonder if that's the problem with them being loose in the housing. I remember my old bearings were 1 5/8" OD... could be wrong?

The answer to your question will only be as detailed and specific as the question is detailed and specfic. Good questions also include a sketch or a photo

Last edited by woodnthings; 01-11-2013 at 05:43 AM.
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post #32 of 33 Old 01-12-2013, 03:04 AM Thread Starter
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I found some 5/8" bore bearings for my jointer, (same as the table saw) on the rack near the hydraulic stuff. They fit perfectly. If they don't you can bring them back OR take your arbor and housing along and try them.... usually nice folks there. http://www.tractorsupply.com/bearing...-8-in--1196105
Tractor Supply Corporation, TSC

These are ISO made bearings, http://www.ebay.com/itm/2-6202-5-8-2...item1e7580f7cd

and these: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Qty-2-6202-2...item5ae7bf9254

From what I'm seeing the OD is now in metric, 35mm. I wonder if that's the problem with them being loose in the housing. I remember my old bearings were 1 5/8" OD... could be wrong?

I see in the link you added the sizes of these bearings. They have an outer diameter of 1.375" just like the Federal Mogul bearings that were fitting loose for me. Today I got a pair of NTN bearings for $30...on the box claimed to be 1.378". I slipped then them in the arbor housing and they are a hair tighter than the other ones but they push in and push back out with hardly no resistance. I also ordered me a Harbor Freight $29 digital Caliper for half price but it not arrived yet. I wanted to measure up all this stuff I have and post it.Hopefully it arrives tomorrow.
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post #33 of 33 Old 01-18-2013, 02:22 AM Thread Starter
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sound of the bearing arbor

I added a new set of NTN bearings to this arbor housing today after I thought I give this thing one more chance. After putting the bearings on the shaft and putting everything back together the darn arbor was able to move in and out of the shaft maybe .010" and thought to myself what the heck is causing this? I just put in brand new NTN bearings at $15 a pop. I noticed one of the snap rings around the arbor on the pulley side was not real tight against the bearing inner race. I thought everything was suppose to line up by itself once everything was pressed on. Thinking maybe I needed a very thin washer shim of maybe .010" which I did not have to make that snap ring really tight against that inner bearing race...I took my rubber hammer and gave the arbor on the pulley side a good whack and figure this might do something.

Well it did I think. There is no in and out play at all now and the snap ring is tight against the bearing's inner race. What does anyone think on what was going on inside this housing to make all this happen?

I wanted to test it and see if any noise when it was put to a good spin so I rigged up a temporary spin on my lathe I had out in my small storage building. I really do not know how much noise these bearings and housing assembly are suppose to make without a blade so I appreciate viewers to take a look at the video I made showing it spinning. I hear some noise but do not really know if this is normal noise.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WAaPG...ature=youtu.be
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