Problem removing jointer wedges - Woodworking Talk - Woodworkers Forum
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
post #1 of 24 Old 12-30-2010, 11:06 AM Thread Starter
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 4
View larryn's Photo Album My Photos
Problem removing jointer wedges

Hi, I am having a problem replacing the blades on an older Craftsman 6 1/8" jointer. I purchased this jointer new around 1983 and have used it occasionally over the years. The model number is 113.206931 and the serial number is 4017.P0663 I never attempted to change the blades until recently and cannot get the wedges loose in order to remove the blades. I have tried WD40, PB Blaster, and a 50/50 solution of automatic transmission fluid and acetone that a friend of mine says works better than anything one can purchase for this purpose. I have worked on this for about a week now with no success at all. It is very hard to hit the wedges with a punch since the bearings are real close to the cutterhead, and there is hardly any room for prying. I have not tried to use any heat and I'm a bit reluctant to do so. I thought that perhaps I could knock the arbor out and then with the cutterhead removed from the jointer, I would be in a better position to deal with it. So, I came across this forum and thought that I may be able to receive some expert assistance and/or advice. I'm not sure how hard it will be to knock the arbor out but Sears does carry replacement bearings if I screw them up but there are no wedges or cutterheads available so I need to proceed with caution. I noticed that on the cutterhead there are two screws which appear perhaps to be set screws for the arbor but i'm not sure about that. I assume that the arbor can be removed with a punch and hammer? Not sure how else it could be done? I'm not terribly excited about removing the cutterhead just to replace blades but not sure what else I can try in order to loosen up the parts. For the time being I can put the screws back in (they all did come loose) and sharpen the blades a bit with a stone. Thanks for any advice. larryn
larryn is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 24 Old 12-30-2010, 11:41 AM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 362
View sketel's Photo Album My Photos
Yeah, they can get pretty stuck if they've been sitting for a long time. Forgive me for asking but are you trying to punch them down into the cutterhead? That is what you need to do to loosen them. If you are trying to knock them out by punching them sideways, that is not going to work. Use a piece of hardwood as a punch since a metal punch can damage the wedges (gibs).
sketel is offline  
post #3 of 24 Old 12-30-2010, 11:46 AM
SS user
 
Gene Howe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Snowflake, AZ
Posts: 2,689
View Gene Howe's Photo Album My Photos
I have the same jointer and the same problem. I just spray liberally with WD40. Then I use a small screw driver and a hammer to get under the gib. That old planer goes through several linear of mesquite weekly. I change blades often.
Gene Howe is offline  
post #4 of 24 Old 12-30-2010, 11:49 AM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Rochester, NY
Posts: 195
View cheese9988's Photo Album My Photos
I have an old 4 1/2 inch model like that. It may come down to you removing the cutter head altogether. Which in itself can pose a challenge, if the bearings and pulley won't come off. With the cutter head off, you can hit it with some heat and knock them out with a piece of wood. Bearings are cheap if you break them. Put anti seize lube on every bolt when you reassemble, you will be glad you did.

Where are you getting the blades, direct from Sears?
cheese9988 is offline  
post #5 of 24 Old 12-30-2010, 12:13 PM
where's my table saw?
 
woodnthings's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: SE, Michigan
Posts: 19,060
View woodnthings's Photo Album My Photos
Yup!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gene Howe View Post
I have the same jointer and the same problem. I just spray liberally with WD40. Then I use a small screw driver and a hammer to get under the gib. That old planer goes through several linear of mesquite weekly. I change blades often.
I have the same jointer also. On the end opposite the drive pulley there should be enough room to get a screwdriver under the gib and pry it up. Another "trick" might be to use the adjusting screws (allens) to raise the blade a touch to loosen it. It shouldn't be frozen, just in there tight. Don't be taking the cutter head off yet . That really won't help much anyway. bill

The answer to your question will only be as detailed and specific as the question is detailed and specfic. Good questions also include a sketch or a photo
woodnthings is online now  
post #6 of 24 Old 12-30-2010, 12:44 PM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Rochester, NY
Posts: 195
View cheese9988's Photo Album My Photos
Quote:
Originally Posted by woodnthings View Post
I have the same jointer also. On the end opposite the drive pulley there should be enough room to get a screwdriver under the gib and pry it up. Another "trick" might be to use the adjusting screws (allens) to raise the blade a touch to loosen it. It shouldn't be frozen, just in there tight. Don't be taking the cutter head off yet . That really won't help much anyway. bill
The one I have was sitting on a garage floor for twenty years, everything came out.
cheese9988 is offline  
post #7 of 24 Old 12-30-2010, 01:41 PM Thread Starter
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 4
View larryn's Photo Album My Photos
Thanks for the replies. In response to Sketel, yes, I am trying to hit them sideways. The instructions with the jointer say to try and pry them up with a screwdriver if they just don't pop out when you remove the screws. I have a Belsaw 12" plane and with that cutterhead, it says to hit the wedges down with a block of wood to release them. That I have done many times and it always works. This system on the jointer doesn't seem to be designed the same way. But, I'll certainly try hitting them down and see if that works. Nothing to lose as I don't think I can get them stuck any more than they already are. To Gene, I have bent a couple of screwdrivers already trying to loosen the wedges. To Cheese, I think the blades I have for replacement probably came from Sears. I bought them when I bought the jointer but never replaced the original ones. To Woodnthings, I have been trying at the end opposite the drive pulley and there is not much room there for prying. I'll look at the pulley end however but have to remove the blade guard to get to it. Also, I have already tried the 'trick' of raising the blade screws but couldn't get anywhere with that either. I'll look into hitting the wedges downwards and will expose the other side of the shaft to see if there is more prying room there and will report back. Thanks to everyone so far. larryn
larryn is offline  
post #8 of 24 Old 12-30-2010, 04:45 PM
where's my table saw?
 
woodnthings's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: SE, Michigan
Posts: 19,060
View woodnthings's Photo Album My Photos
Wedge confusion

There are 2 types of wedges used in that style of jointer:
1 piece wedge OR a bar with 4 tightening bolts. Be aware that "unscrewing the bolts" CCW, actually tightens them against the cutterhead.
My jointer model 113.20621 uses the old style one piece wedge, as you tighten the screws it compresses/wedges in further. The other style uses 4 bolts that you snug up against the blade to hold it in place. Your model comes up as using the bar W 4 bolts. What's to stop you from loosening the 4 bolts and freeing up the bar and knife assembly? I it possible that your jointer has a carryover wedge rather than the bar W 4 bolts?
If so, use some Kroil, an excellent penetrating oil that seeps into every crevice to loosen up frozen parts. My newer jointer also a Craftsman 6" has the newer style bar W 4 bolts, as in the first photo:
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	100_1509.jpg
Views:	224
Size:	76.0 KB
ID:	19433  

Click image for larger version

Name:	100_1505.jpg
Views:	172
Size:	92.7 KB
ID:	19434  

Click image for larger version

Name:	100_1506.jpg
Views:	431
Size:	85.5 KB
ID:	19435  

Click image for larger version

Name:	100_1508.jpg
Views:	288
Size:	97.8 KB
ID:	19436  


The answer to your question will only be as detailed and specific as the question is detailed and specfic. Good questions also include a sketch or a photo

Last edited by woodnthings; 12-30-2010 at 06:02 PM.
woodnthings is online now  
post #9 of 24 Old 12-30-2010, 04:52 PM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 362
View sketel's Photo Album My Photos
Quote:
Originally Posted by larryn View Post
The instructions with the jointer say to try and pry them up with a screwdriver if they just don't pop out when you remove the screws.
Apparently this jointer is different than the ones i've used. Sounds like plenty of people have experience with your jointer though.
sketel is offline  
post #10 of 24 Old 12-30-2010, 07:49 PM Thread Starter
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 4
View larryn's Photo Album My Photos
In reply to "woodnthings", my jointer appears to have the one piece wedge with the 2 screws that come all the way out. Also, I don't have the room that in shown in the photos for prying. Its really hard on mine to get any leverage. I will work on this for a while longer before considerating pulling out the cutterhead. I really want to avoid that if at all possible.
larryn is offline  
post #11 of 24 Old 12-30-2010, 08:36 PM
where's my table saw?
 
woodnthings's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: SE, Michigan
Posts: 19,060
View woodnthings's Photo Album My Photos
One other thought

Prying is sometimes not the answer. A sharp blow on the end of the screw driver is better in this case. Maybe even a nail set will
have enough taper, or a small cold chisel. good luck! bill

The answer to your question will only be as detailed and specific as the question is detailed and specfic. Good questions also include a sketch or a photo
woodnthings is online now  
post #12 of 24 Old 12-30-2010, 08:41 PM
sawdust maker
 
woody woodturner's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: NSW Australia
Posts: 560
View woody woodturner's Photo Album My Photos
pull the head off, if it has been there long enough to freeze the blades and wedges solid then you can bet the bearing are are not to good it is time to service the machine

Old wood workers never die thay just get dry rot

Last edited by woody woodturner; 12-30-2010 at 08:44 PM.
woody woodturner is offline  
post #13 of 24 Old 12-30-2010, 08:47 PM
sawdust maker
 
woody woodturner's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: NSW Australia
Posts: 560
View woody woodturner's Photo Album My Photos
get a spiral head for it never have the problem again

Old wood workers never die thay just get dry rot
woody woodturner is offline  
post #14 of 24 Old 12-30-2010, 08:56 PM
where's my table saw?
 
woodnthings's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: SE, Michigan
Posts: 19,060
View woodnthings's Photo Album My Photos
Easy for you to say

You gonna give him the $600.00

The answer to your question will only be as detailed and specific as the question is detailed and specfic. Good questions also include a sketch or a photo
woodnthings is online now  
post #15 of 24 Old 12-30-2010, 09:00 PM
sawdust maker
 
woody woodturner's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: NSW Australia
Posts: 560
View woody woodturner's Photo Album My Photos
600 thats cheap my club just payed $1,500 for one

Old wood workers never die thay just get dry rot
woody woodturner is offline  
post #16 of 24 Old 12-30-2010, 09:07 PM
where's my table saw?
 
woodnthings's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: SE, Michigan
Posts: 19,060
View woodnthings's Photo Album My Photos
Well then, write him the check there woody

BTW these jointers are selling on Ebay for $200.00
A new $1500 cutterhead is not the answer he was looking for.

The answer to your question will only be as detailed and specific as the question is detailed and specfic. Good questions also include a sketch or a photo

Last edited by woodnthings; 12-30-2010 at 09:12 PM.
woodnthings is online now  
post #17 of 24 Old 12-30-2010, 09:08 PM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Rochester, NY
Posts: 195
View cheese9988's Photo Album My Photos
Quote:
Originally Posted by woody woodturner View Post
pull the head off, if it has been there long enough to freeze the blades and wedges solid then you can bet the bearing are are not to good it is time to service the machine
This is what I'm thinking. If you pry too hard, or hit it too hard, you could dent or crack something. Also on mine (a 103.x model), you can slide the 1/2 inch main shaft accidently by hitting it. If the bearings are worn, you can pick up a new set for $20 anyway. With the new bearings I can whip the cutter head around and it will spin freely for ten seconds or more on its own.
cheese9988 is offline  
post #18 of 24 Old 12-30-2010, 09:14 PM
sawdust maker
 
woody woodturner's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: NSW Australia
Posts: 560
View woody woodturner's Photo Album My Photos
as i said pull the head off new bearings easy access

Old wood workers never die thay just get dry rot
woody woodturner is offline  
post #19 of 24 Old 01-01-2011, 08:52 AM Thread Starter
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 4
View larryn's Photo Album My Photos
Once again. Thanks to everyone and your very helpful suggestions. I have attacked the problem a couple more times without success so I plan to put the screws back in and attempt to sharpen the blades a bit with a stone, finish my project and then go at it again with a bit more vigor. I don't want to start hitting on the blades right now and then be stuck with not being able to use the jointer at all. I am going to consider knocking out the arbor and dealing with the cutterhead off of the machine which will be only other alternative if I can't loosen things up in place, although my prior experience with arbors and bearings tells me that I could have problems knocking the arbor out considering how frozen everything else seems to be. I placed the initial posting on three different forums. (Woodworking Talk; Old Woodworking Machines; and North Carolina Woodworker). I am very impressed with everyone on all forums and I appreciate your interest in my problem and your suggestions. I will let you all know how things turn out and for what its worth, attached is a picture of the cutterhead. Any furtherr words of wisdom will certainly be appreciated. larry
larryn is offline  
post #20 of 24 Old 01-01-2011, 09:08 AM
where's my table saw?
 
woodnthings's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: SE, Michigan
Posts: 19,060
View woodnthings's Photo Album My Photos
If they are "frozen" try this

Get Some penertating oil, Kroil or Gibbs or PB Blaster, not WD40, and squirt it under the wedges from the both sides.

Making certain the cutter is clear of obstruction, briefly turn the machine on. Centrifugal force will throw the penetrant along side the wedges and knifes to force it in. Do this a few times and in a few days they should loosen up. A sharp "rap" not a heavy blow, downward on the wedge should help, making sure the leveling screws are fully up, or you'll just end up tightening the whole assembly. You should be able to get a bar, steel or brass against the side of the wedge to do the same thing, if you can't get any other wedged shaped tool under them. Any upward force will be great. It will take some patience, physics and chemistry on this one.
I would not be adverse to applying a little heat from a propane torch to the wedges, since the knives may be a lost cause. I'm not talking red hot, just hot to the touch to allow the metal to expand and the oil to seep in. Do this as a last resort though if the oil won't work. bill

The answer to your question will only be as detailed and specific as the question is detailed and specfic. Good questions also include a sketch or a photo
woodnthings is online now  
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the Woodworking Talk - Woodworkers Forum forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in









Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.



Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Linear Mode



Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Jointer Problem clarionflyer General Woodworking Discussion 7 10-06-2010 02:43 PM
old craftsman jointer problem Gary Beasley Power Tools & Machinery 11 01-23-2010 03:08 PM
why do I sometimes make wedges on my jointer? djonesax Power Tools & Machinery 34 06-19-2009 10:59 PM
Newbie with a jointer problem! bupsall Power Tools & Machinery 10 01-15-2009 02:32 PM
Help with a jointer problem Richard Power Tools & Machinery 5 03-12-2008 12:45 PM

Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome