New to table saws and this forum

[Chris4311]

I've been a radial arm saw guy but recently I bought a Craftsman table saw off a neighbor of mine so I've been playing around with it.

One thing I'd like to do is to make a cross cut sled so I've been looking around for some ideas and I've found a few. One thing I'm wondering about is what to do with the runners.

I'm going to try to attach a picture with this post but just in case that doesn't work this is what's going on.

Unlike the big table saw that have simple rectangular groves for the for the tracks of a sled or miter gauge, this table saw has four flanges that jut out into the track making it so any runner would need to be 'T'd.

I've looked on the Craftsman site and others, but no one seems to make any runners that would fit in this type of slot.

Now I can cut something to fit that but it seems to be a real pain in the backside and I can't see any reason why these flanges exist in the first place so I'm thinking about just grinding them off. The table is cast aluminum, so it shouldn't be that hard to do, but I'm just wondering if anyone here can think of a reason that I'm not thinking of as to why not do this.

Thanks for any thoughts about this.

[knotscott]

The flanges appear to be there to keep the miter gauge in the slot....similar principle to the t-slots that many have. Instead of grinding the tabs off, it might be easier just to make the runners low enough to slide under the tabs and add a couple of spacers. Grinding should work too.

[woodnthings]

As a former product designer I wish I could "talk" to the idiots that come up with a "better idea" sometimes. If it ain't broke don't "fix it" applies to those tabs. A more complex solution is to mill the undercut into the table slots as on the Powermatics and others, but that's an another expense and operation. If your miter gauge keeps falling out, maybe it's "operator error". They should just make the bars on them 6" longer in the first place. And to make a tablesaw that does not accept other mitergages and aftermarket products is just plain wrong.
Grind them off and be done with it and hopefully the slots are the standard 3/4" x 3/8th size, if not you'll have to make your own bars in what ever size is required. Woodworking stores sell pre-made aluminum bars for this purpose and Woodcraft is where I got mine, 48" long. Good Luck, bill

[Sleeper]

Today I was looking for some 3/8 x 3/4 inch flat bar to build a sled, but after visiting 4 stores I ended up with a 3/16” thick flat bar. I bought only one piece to see if could put two together somehow to make it thicker.
I think the 3/16 bar would work with spacers or washers as knotscott said to lower the bar to fit under the flange.
Bill also has point, but I can't tell what side the flange is on. I had my miter guage fall out of the slot once and hit me right in the toe as I was trying to cut a wide board with out a sled.
I might also do it because I'm to cheap to spend that much for a ready made bar.

[Chris4311]

Originally Posted by woodnthings

Grind them off and be done with it and hopefully the slots are the standard 3/4" x 3/8th size,

Yea, you would hope but that wouldn't do squat. The slots are 5/8 X 3/8.

Thanks for the info, tomorrow I'll grab the ol' angle grinder and go to town on it.

I happened to be down in the area of this plastics distributor yesterday so I stoped by and bought a big hunkin' (that's an actual form of measurement in case you didn't know) piece of polyblahblahblah which just so happened to be in 5/8" strips. So sans stupid flange these puppies are going to be slicker than a backseat on prom night.

grindy grindy,

thanks,

Chris

[Clouseau]

Keep an eye out for a Shopsmith miter guage. Some of those have 5/8" wide bars, and they have the nifty clamping handle.

[Chris4311]

Originally Posted by knotscott

The flanges appear to be there to keep the miter gauge in the slot....similar principle to the t-slots that many have. Instead of grinding the tabs off, it might be easier just to make the runners low enough to slide under the tabs and add a couple of spacers. Grinding should work too.

That might actually be a good idea. I didn't think about spacers.

Damn it! I have to use my brain now!

[woodnthings]

You never know when you may want to lift the mitergage off or the cross cut sled and you will find it trapped under the tabs and get PO'D Grrrrrr. Shuda cut those tabs off. Hey, it's your saw. What ever works for ya. Do post back with your decision,OK? bill

[wolfmanyoda]

So what did you do? I'm pretty curious as I also have a craftsman with those stupid tabs and the non-standard slot.
I really want to grind them off, but the smarter part of me says to leave them on, sell it, and get a real saw.
The only problem with that is I have no table saw fund to do that at the moment.

[knotscott]

Originally Posted by wolfmanyoda

... but the smarter part of me says to leave them on, sell it, and get a real saw.
The only problem with that is I have no table saw fund to do that at the moment.

Great thought! When I've lacked funds for a tool I want, I've purchased older Craftsman contractor saws in the $75-$100 range, and sold off the parts. The proceeds go toward my tool fund. Part out two saws and sell your current saw, and I'll bet you'd be in range of a decent used saw, or even add a couple of upgrades to one of those older full size Craftsman contractor saws. It's a little work but there's a reward. Good luck...

[toolman Steve]

Chris I made the runners for my sled , older craftsmen out of oak and waxed them. had it for many years before I lost or left it some were . That way you can cut it to fit the (T) shape. I cut a slight dado in the bottom of the sled , just screwed it in case it needed re work .

[woodnthings]

I found a piece of 3/4" x 1/2" x 10 foot long steel bar down at the bottom of my steel rack. Hmmm... wrong thickness for a sled should be 3/8ths", not 1/2"...hmmm I could build up an 1/8th" with something...hmmm, why not lose the 1/8th in a DADO? YES! I think I'll make an 8' long straightening sled with the steel bar in the miter gauge slot and a piece of 3/4" ply for the top make it wide left of the blade 1/2" or so, then rip the left 1/2" off to get the exact cutline. Cover it with rough sandpaper from a floor sander belt like 36 grit or use some round 36 grit discs glued on. Place the crooked board anywhere you want to cut on the left edge,press down, rip away, no clamps, nails, screws....hmmmm ... tomorrows project among others....so many ideas so little time, or was that women?
bill

[Chris4311]

Okay, so after getting all of your feedback (thanks a lot for it BTW) and after running down to a couple of woodworking stores, I decided to go the least destructive route first.

One interesting suggestion I got and one that I looked into, was to instead of just grinding off the flanges, which would have limited use seeing that the groove is still 1/8" too narrow, but bring the entire table top to a machinist and have him re-rout the entire groove et al and widen it to the standard 3/4. Unfortunately since my table is cast aluminum, this isn't an option because there wouldn't have been enough of the groove wall to left.

So like I said I've gone the least destructive path first. I made my 'T' runners (one is oak the other is pine because I screwed up the second oak one and didn't want to haul my butt out and buy another). I attached them first by putting a little glue on them, putting them into the grove then putting what would become the base of my sled on top and weighed it down. This held long enough for me to pull it out and shoot some brads in to hold it.

As you can see (hopefully) from the pic, I left the runners extended an inch or so from the sled so I can see them and fit them to the grooves easier. I also shaped them a bit with a hand rasp/file to a more torpedo shape so that they go really really fast! Also so that they dont just slam into the stupid flanges mid cut.

I then attached the fences which are red oak.

*Quick aside here: One thing, actually the only thing I like about Home Depot is that they sell scrap for dirt cheep. I like dirt cheep, it suits me well. but for these pieces I decided to bite the bullet and just buy them. I found the ones I wanted, grabbed something else I needed and went to the checkout. The guy that checked me out couldn't find the skew number for the Oak so he got ticked off at the computer and ended up letting me have them for nothing. It was at least 10$ of oak.*

I didn't know if it was better to attach the joint from the end of from the bottom so I decided to do both (see pic) I also didn't know how many screws I should use so I just figured that 'the more the merrier' and screw the holy hell out of it. The inner fence I tacked in with brads.

So it seems pretty sturdy, but I have yet to check it for square mainly because with my luck it's not and I'll end up throwing this thing out of my garage where upon I'll probably hit a little kid in the head, get arrested and spend the next 10 years of my life being the love puppet of some guy who murdered Oakland and I just didn't want that to happen without letting all you nice folks know what happened with my table saw.

Cheers

Chris

[toolman Steve]

looks good Chris , if its not square adjust your F&B rails.(do not throw it away .)Keep the rails waxed and you should not have a problem.

[woodnthings]

Originally Posted by wolfmanyoda

So what did you do? I'm pretty curious as I also have a craftsman with those stupid tabs and the non-standard slot.
I really want to grind them off, but the smarter part of me says to leave them on, sell it, and get a real saw.
The only problem with that is I have no table saw fund to do that at the moment.

One of youse guys should just grind off the tabs and that way we would have 2 different approches to this "problem". Question: if you did grind off the tabs what would be the exact size of the groove/ slot/dado? 3/8ths x 5/8ths? And how does making a runner work unless you run it in the portion under the tabs? Those tabs are just a PITA ! Right? Your runner has to be a "T" section to get by them, and under them... Right? Now if it were me and I had no TS budget, I would set up my circ saw with a carbide blde and a fence to "whack" off the tabs just shy of the edge of the groove and dress the rest down with a file, Also if those groves were "cast" in place rather than "machined" there will be a very slight draft angle in the edges unless they used a special casting process, which will make it difficult to get a rectangular runner in a trapezoidal slot to fit just right, JMHO. I've had to "modify" more machines and products in my life time than I can count to get them "right" after they were designed and manufactured by so called experts. One example, the parking brake on my 04 GMC sticks back and out toward the driver just such that every time I step in, my pant cuff hangs over the pedal and I get all PO'd . It's happened a hundred times. I also manage to turn the heated seats on most of the time when I lower the drivers window. Another inch of separation would have made that impossible! I luv my truck in spite of those flaws, however. Some panty waiste designer, and I probably know him since that's where I worked for 30 yrs, made a few bad design decisions and now everyone is stuck with them, much like your "nonstandard mitergauge grooves" Enough ranting. Just let us know what you decide. bill

[Chris4311]

Originally Posted by woodnthings

One of youse guys should just grind off the tabs and that way we would have 2 different approches to this "problem". Question: if you did grind off the tabs what would be the exact size of the groove/ slot/dado? 3/8ths x 5/8ths? And how does making a runner work unless you run it in the portion under the tabs? Those tabs are just a PITA ! Right? Your runner has to be a "T" section to get by them, and under them... Right? Now if it were me and I had no TS budget, I would set up my circ saw with a carbide blde and a fence to "whack" off the tabs just shy of the edge of the groove and dress the rest down with a file, Also if those groves were "cast" in place rather than "machined" there will be a very slight draft angle in the edges unless they used a special casting process, which will make it difficult to get a rectangular runner in a trapezoidal slot to fit just right, JMHO. I've had to "modify" more machines and products in my life time than I can count to get them "right" after they were designed and manufactured by so called experts. One example, the parking brake on my 04 GMC sticks back and out toward the driver just such that every time I step in, my pant cuff hangs over the pedal and I get all PO'd . It's happened a hundred times. I also manage to turn the heated seats on most of the time when I lower the drivers window. Another inch of separation would have made that impossible! I luv my truck in spite of those flaws, however. Some panty waiste designer, and I probably know him since that's where I worked for 30 yrs, made a few bad design decisions and now everyone is stuck with them, much like your "nonstandard mitergauge grooves" Enough ranting. Just let us know what you decide. bill

The main reason I decided not to grind (or whack) the flanges off is because of resale. I know that's a lame reason but you see, I'm a Craigslist junky.

"Hi, my names Chris and I'm addicted to Craigslist"
(group) "Hi Chris"

In the past two months I've been 5 minutes too late from buying stationary table saws for practically nothing. Two of which were Delta's that were in great/fantastic/super/like new condition, one was sold for 50$ the other 100$. The third was a PowerMatic that sold for 100$. So just in case I run into one of those deals I want to be able to sell mine.

Your mentioning of your frustration with your truck reminds me of a documentary I saw years ago about American business and where it was going wrong in comparison to like industries from abroad. They were interviewing Sam Walton, not about Wal-Mart, but about his truck. His everyday car was (if I remember correctly) a Chevy or GMC full size pick up. He said the problem with it wasn't anything big. The engine worked, the trany worked, the brakes worked etc., the problem(s) was the little things. He said every day, when he got into his truck, he looked around the cab at all of the little annoyences and repeated the same mantra. As he looked at each one he'd count them the same way by say "god damn it" to each little petty annoyance. So they showed him sitting in his truck pointing at each problem saying "god damn it, god damn it, god damn it god damn it...."

Pretty funny

[woodnthings]

If you can find the kind of saw you mentioned, a top line Powermatic or Delta for $100 craigslist bucks, just how much do you think you can get for that piece of crapsman TS.... $25.. maybe? I'd be living next to the computer 24/7 until I found what I wanted and save the other one for a portable...right after I sawed off the stupid tabs! I wish you success in finding a real saw, and it shouldn't take long.
PS:
If I didn't already have more TSs than a man should have, I'd be secretly bidding against you...heh ...heh so I could post my find here and see if you noticed. And then you'd probably write me a nasty PM! bill