I need Wiring diagram to reverse motor. - Woodworking Talk - Woodworkers Forum
 
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post #1 of 16 Old 12-25-2011, 06:41 PM Thread Starter
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I need Wiring diagram to reverse motor.

I just spent a very frustrating couple of hours trying to wire an AC motor to a lathe. I can get it to work in different ways, but all going the same direction. I want it to be reversible.

I know the motor is reversible - it says so right on the side "reverse the red and black."

There are only three wires - white, black and ground. (maybe red/black and ground - it doesn't help that the wires are old and I"m color blind.)
I've got a dpdt toggle switch. I think. Might be a spdt. I just know it's three way, on-off-on, and that it's rated for more than enough amps that I'm not going to fry myself or the machine playing with it.

The best I could do is to get it so that the middle is off (so far so good) and up is clockwise (looking good, 2 out of three) and down is clockwise (@#$^#$^ piece of @#%@#$%^)!!

I've googled dpdt spdt reversible motor reverse switch diagram schematics plans etc and I can't get anything I understand.

The switch is on-off-on. It has six connections - #1, #2 at one end. two in the middle, and #3, #4 on the other end.

My latest attempt has the ground from the outlet side connected to the ground from the motor. The Black/White from the outlet side are connected to the middle two connectors.
The black/white from the motor are connected to #1 and #2.

I then ran connecting wires from end to end - I linked #1 to #3 and #2 to #4. This made the switch work on-off-on, but both went clockwise.

So I tried linking #1 to #4 and #2 to #3. Switch still works on-off-on, but still goes clockwise for both ons.

What am I doing wrong? Can someone who has done it please draw me a diagram in layman's terms - something with black/white/ground and terminals, none of that line with a dot stuff because I forgot that stuff 30 years ago.

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post #2 of 16 Old 12-25-2011, 07:12 PM
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Maybe this diagram is what you want:


The VS and 0V would be your black and white power-in leads. The diagram's A&D could be your 1&2 and C&F could be your 3&4, both to the motor.

Bill
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del schisler (12-25-2011)
post #3 of 16 Old 12-25-2011, 07:18 PM Thread Starter
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Thanks. That was one of the options I tried - it didn't work. Just went clockwise no matter which end I turned on.
I'm beginning to think I might have the wrong type switch.

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post #4 of 16 Old 12-25-2011, 07:41 PM
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That diagram will not work as the motor is AC.

Bob making sawdust in SW Louisiana
with a EX-21
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post #5 of 16 Old 12-25-2011, 07:43 PM
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I use these

http://www.drillspot.com/products/42...versing_Switch


Cheapest prices here:
http://electricmotorwarehouse.com/drum_switch.htm

Online diagram: http://electricmotorwarehouse.com/IM...1A_diagram.jpg


I have a wiring diagram for it if you get one. Complicated. Spent hours with continuity meter checking what went "hot" in which position. bill

I don't think your switch will work, I donno? Diagram above is for a DC motor as stated.

Maybe something here: http://www.armurerieduroi.com/pages/..._switch.html#3

The answer to your question will only be as detailed and specific as the question is detailed and specfic. Good questions also include a sketch or a photo

Last edited by woodnthings; 12-25-2011 at 07:55 PM.
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post #6 of 16 Old 12-25-2011, 07:50 PM Thread Starter
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There can only be so many possibilities.
I tried it that way.
I tried it that way, but instead of going DC and AF, I went AC and DF.

I tried it that way with DC and AF, but I had the motor going to B and E, and the outlet to A and D.

I tried it with the outlet to A and D, the motor going to B and E and instead of DC AF I tried AC and DF.

Every single one and the motor just keeps going in the same direction.

I went back out to the shop, pulled out the wiring, resisted the urge to chuck the motor out the back door next to the remnants from the broken planer, and brought it in to start googling. As near as I can tell, it is a DPDT switch, ON-OFF-ON, but one side is "real" on and the other side is supposed to be "momentary" ON. So now I think I've got the wrong switch and I have to either driver 90 miles to the real city to find an electrical supply store, or order one online and hope that somehow I pick out the right one, so this lathe might end up going back in the shed (AKA "Island of Misfit Tools") until I'm in a better mood or feeling more adventurous.

PS: Looks like Woodnthings was typing while I was. Thanks for the info. $54 bucks? For a Switch? Not that I'm cheap, but I'd rather train my dog to hold all the wires in his paws and to switch the red/black when I yell "fetch."

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Last edited by joesbucketorust; 12-25-2011 at 07:53 PM.
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post #7 of 16 Old 12-25-2011, 07:57 PM
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see my post added stuff

above

You want the "position maintained switch"

Same diagram as I have, disregard the left side, use spilt phase on the right and the center shows the actual contacts being connected.

The answer to your question will only be as detailed and specific as the question is detailed and specfic. Good questions also include a sketch or a photo

Last edited by woodnthings; 12-25-2011 at 08:17 PM.
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post #8 of 16 Old 12-25-2011, 08:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joesbucketorust View Post
There can only be so many possibilities.
I tried it that way.
I tried it that way, but instead of going DC and AF, I went AC and DF.

I tried it that way with DC and AF, but I had the motor going to B and E, and the outlet to A and D.

I tried it with the outlet to A and D, the motor going to B and E and instead of DC AF I tried AC and DF.

Every single one and the motor just keeps going in the same direction.

I went back out to the shop, pulled out the wiring, resisted the urge to chuck the motor out the back door next to the remnants from the broken planer, and brought it in to start googling. As near as I can tell, it is a DPDT switch, ON-OFF-ON, but one side is "real" on and the other side is supposed to be "momentary" ON. So now I think I've got the wrong switch and I have to either driver 90 miles to the real city to find an electrical supply store, or order one online and hope that somehow I pick out the right one, so this lathe might end up going back in the shed (AKA "Island of Misfit Tools") until I'm in a better mood or feeling more adventurous.

PS: Looks like Woodnthings was typing while I was. Thanks for the info. $54 bucks? For a Switch? Not that I'm cheap, but I'd rather train my dog to hold all the wires in his paws and to switch the red/black when I yell "fetch."
shouldn't be that much a dpdt is what you want not a momentary on switch that will work on ac or dc doesn't matter the winding don't know the difference. It is just voltage if the winding's are their and eather dc or ac. Now dc will run backward's depend's where the plus and ninus are . Now on Ac the plus and minus doesn't matter on the winding's . unless the motor is reversable now it does . my 2 cents
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post #9 of 16 Old 12-25-2011, 08:57 PM Thread Starter
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OK, thanks guys. I'll wait til after the holidays and take a trip up to Tucson. There's a decent electrical supply store near the Woodcraft so I'm sure I can make the trip worthwhile.

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post #10 of 16 Old 12-25-2011, 09:44 PM
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Joe said:
<<I know the motor is reversible - it says so right on the side "reverse the red and black." ..... There are only three wires - white, black and ground.>>

The circuit I gave would do what he asked. I'm aware that a lot of AC motors can't be reversed and don't know specifically what he's dealing with.

Bill

Last edited by dodgeboy77; 12-25-2011 at 09:46 PM.
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post #11 of 16 Old 12-25-2011, 09:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dodgeboy77 View Post
Joe said:
<<I know the motor is reversible - it says so right on the side "reverse the red and black." ..... There are only three wires - white, black and ground.>>

The circuit I gave would do what he asked. I'm aware that a lot of AC motors can't be reversed and don't know specifically what he's dealing with.

Bill
that would be 4 wires in my book..... red and black must be interchanged .....coming from the inside the motor...... by the reversing switch.

Most motors I've reversed have a yellow or blue or brown inside as well so ??? I donno.

The black (hot), white ( neutral) and green (ground come from the plug.


the diagrams show only 2 wire to the motor.

The answer to your question will only be as detailed and specific as the question is detailed and specfic. Good questions also include a sketch or a photo

Last edited by woodnthings; 12-26-2011 at 12:43 AM.
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post #12 of 16 Old 12-25-2011, 10:12 PM
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Reversing the red and and black leads refers to leads inside the motor. These leads come from the winding's and go to spade or lug terminals.
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post #13 of 16 Old 12-25-2011, 10:56 PM
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Sounds like mveach has the answer!

Bill
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post #14 of 16 Old 12-26-2011, 12:41 AM
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Yup

Quote:
Originally Posted by mveach View Post
Reversing the red and and black leads refers to leads inside the motor. These leads come from the winding's and go to spade or lug terminals.
Quote:
Originally Posted by dodgeboy77 View Post
Sounds like mveach has the answer!

Bill
That's what I was gettin' at. When I added a reversing switch to my old Craftsman shaper, I had to run a 4 conductor lead from the switch back to the motor. I can't remember exactly how, but I can open up the switch box and see what I did. This is a little more complicated than reversing polarilty like on a DC motor to make it rotate opposite. bill

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post #15 of 16 Old 12-26-2011, 09:08 PM
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I might of overlooked this, but is there a capacitor in line with this motor? If so I think this would change things. Just wondering.

Rick
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post #16 of 16 Old 12-26-2011, 09:37 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rck View Post
I might of overlooked this, but is there a capacitor in line with this motor? If so I think this would change things. Just wondering.

Rick
I'll go out and take a pic of it tomorrow morning, but yes I'm pretty sure it does. I did make a small discovery today - by reversing the two wires in from the outlet I was able to get the motor to go counterclockwise - in both on positions of course, so I know for sure now that it is reversible. I was pretty sure I had the wrong switch - it's marked LR39145 and E60272, apparently the first number fits half a million different switches, but the second one says DPDT on-off-on according to this diagram:
http://www.delcity.net/images/linedrawings/7000059.pdf

Then I googled some more and stumbled on another forum's thread that does what I want, with what I seem to have, but I am too tired to figure out what the heck they are talking about:
http://www.diychatroom.com/f18/rever...-motor-112173/

I really need to just put it aside until I can talk to a pro, in person with the parts in hand. Otherwise I'm going to burn something up. And I need a 4th lathe like a hole in the head, but it's just sitting there taunting me and I don't want to let it win.

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