1/16" Saw Blade - Woodworking Talk - Woodworkers Forum

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post #1 of 27 Old 05-07-2011, 07:00 PM Thread Starter
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1/16" Saw Blade

In the latest issue of "Wood Shop News" there was an article about a 1/16" kerf saw blade.

YES it is 10" in diameter.

YES the kerf is 1/16".

The company is Total Saw Solutions or WWW.totalsawsolutions.com

The cost is about $175.

Interesting to say the least.

Use the right tool for the job.

Rich (Tilting right)
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post #2 of 27 Old 05-07-2011, 07:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rrich View Post
In the latest issue of "Wood Shop News" there was an article about a 1/16" kerf saw blade.

YES it is 10" in diameter.

YES the kerf is 1/16".

The company is Total Saw Solutions or WWW.totalsawsolutions.com

The cost is about $175.

Interesting to say the least.
Is that all...such a deal.

One of the shops I consult, was concerned about his tablesaw blade. With the blade extended high, and running a piece of wood was gently fed in to the side of the teeth, creating a wobble.

I quit using thin kerf blades years ago. They may be beneficial for low powered saws, but a blade purposed for the procedure, IMO is a better bet. For ripping thick stock a 32T or 24T would be more productive than a thin kerf blade.







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post #3 of 27 Old 05-07-2011, 07:47 PM
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They talk it up pretty good

Someone here should buy one.
And give us a review.....anyone?


Knotscott ...you here? bill

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post #4 of 27 Old 05-07-2011, 07:55 PM
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Can't the wood get hung up on the splitter with such a thin blade?
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post #5 of 27 Old 05-07-2011, 08:41 PM
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Good thinking!

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Originally Posted by Brink View Post
Can't the wood get hung up on the splitter with such a thin blade?
I can't really see any advantage if that's the case. I rely on my splitter more than ever these days. The thin blade was developed by a company who made custom commercial saw blades. According to the article the thin blades were used primarily ... "for various ripping operations where precision cutting was important"...
http://www.totalsawsolutions.com/index.htm
Obviously on plywood or other sheet goods a splitter is not needed, since the wood will not not move/close up when the cut is made. Having just ripped a couple thousand lineal ft of red oak in the last 3 days with my trusty $30.00 Freud Diablo 1040, I had the kerf close up several times and I stalled the blade a few times also. I sprayed the splitter with SILICONE...God Forbid and man what a difference! It went through like butter. I know C-man will have a word with me in the wood shed. Oh well!
Anyhow, at $175.00 I can go through enough Freuds to last me a lifetime. You would think thinner is less steel...cheaper? bill

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Last edited by woodnthings; 05-08-2011 at 08:26 AM.
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post #6 of 27 Old 05-07-2011, 09:02 PM
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I'd be very wary of using a very thin kerf blade. Too many things to go wrong in a manual operation. I bet heat build-up on the blade would be a larger factor, and because it's so much more flexible it would more prone to binding.

All of this applies to manual use, if the blade was mounted for a mechanical or robotic operation I bet none of this would be a problem - and I bet that's what this blade was designed for.
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post #7 of 27 Old 05-07-2011, 09:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by klr650 View Post
I'd be very wary of using a very thin kerf blade. Too many things to go wrong in a manual operation. I bet heat build-up on the blade would be a larger factor, and because it's so much more flexible it would more prone to binding.

All of this applies to manual use, if the blade was mounted for a mechanical or robotic operation I bet none of this would be a problem - and I bet that's what this blade was designed for.
Apparently the blade has a shoulder then gets thicker near the arbor to prevent distortion. It's an interesting concept and I'm sure it works. If it's ground from a thicker plate that's where the expense is.... bill

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post #8 of 27 Old 05-07-2011, 09:36 PM
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Yeah I'm here, but geez that's a lot of moola for 1/2 a blade! Now, if the twins who make this blade would like to send me one for scientific evaluation, I'd be happy to give it a spin!

Another well respected wwer name Joe Grout, who gets around several of these forums tried one and ended up returning it. He liked it but thought it dulled too quickly, and wasn't superior to his WWII. Most comments I've read are favorable, but so are most comments about a $27 Freud Diablo and a $17 Delta/DeWalt 7657. It comes with a built in stabilizer, which they claim offsets the high cost by a bit. I have no doubt that it's possible to make a 1/16" blade that'll track pretty well, but the laws of physics still apply...both for the thickness of the kerf, and for the quality of the cut. Assuming that deflection is negligible, it should indeed require less power and have very low feed pressure, but I question whether it's possible to get a better cut than other top flight 40T general purpose blades like the WWII, Infinity Super General, Ridge Carbide TS2000, Freud Fusion, or Tenryu Gold medal provide. When I need a cleaner cut, I reach for an 80T Hi-ATB blade, but even the best of those doesn't provide a finish ready edge.....at a certain price point you reach a point of diminishing returns as far as cut quality goes, so unless you can benefit from wood savings, which would take a lot of expensive exotics, I'm not seeing justification for this hobbyist to shell out $175 vs sale prices of $65-$90 for other top flight 40T blades. You guys wanna chip in for one and take turns with it?
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post #9 of 27 Old 05-07-2011, 09:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by klr650 View Post
I'd be very wary of using a very thin kerf blade. Too many things to go wrong in a manual operation. I bet heat build-up on the blade would be a larger factor, and because it's so much more flexible it would more prone to binding.

All of this applies to manual use, if the blade was mounted for a mechanical or robotic operation I bet none of this would be a problem - and I bet that's what this blade was designed for.

Nah, here's some info on slitting saws.:

http://www.slittingsaw.org/


Used to use them all the time in tool and die shops, cutting steel, aluminum, brass, wood, composites. They make solid carbide saws to cut any material on manual or CNC machines. I think the smallest kerf I ever used was .020 thick and up to 6" diameter. Get the feed and speed right, there's not a material that can't be cut.

Seems like every year, more and more companies are adapting metal cutting technology, into the woodworking trades. Pretty cool!

Harrison, at your service!
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post #10 of 27 Old 05-07-2011, 09:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by woodnthings View Post
Apparently the blade has a shoulder then gets thicker near the arbor to prevent distortion. It's an interesting concept and I'm sure it works. If it's ground from a thicker plate that's where the expense is.... bill
I bet you're thinking of hollow ground blades, some of them get extremely expensive.

Harrison, at your service!
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post #11 of 27 Old 05-07-2011, 09:52 PM
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Just saw their You Tube Video

It seemed to me that the slabilizers, extra support collars as they call them, are an "add on" rather than ground away as I thought. I could be wrong, but that would make way more sense as far as cost. bill


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Last edited by woodnthings; 05-07-2011 at 09:54 PM.
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post #12 of 27 Old 05-07-2011, 10:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by woodnthings View Post
It seemed to me that the slabilizers, extra support collars as they call them, are an "add on" rather than ground away as I thought. I could be wrong, but that would make way more sense as far as cost. bill
Some thin kerf blades have a thicker body and about a 1.25" available cutting edge. I think I found a correct picture here. If that's the wrong picture, the blade looks like that one with the thicker body as outlined.

There are blade stabilizers that are about 6" in diameter, that are flat (like a huge fender washer), and go under the outside nut and washer on the arbor. Problem with them is the same as the blade with the differential, in that you only have a short cutting height.

Idiots like me like to run the blade high, and IMO, the cut is better, and the lift on the front of the cut is minimized.








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post #13 of 27 Old 05-08-2011, 01:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by woodnthings View Post
Apparently the blade has a shoulder then gets thicker near the arbor to prevent distortion. It's an interesting concept and I'm sure it works. If it's ground from a thicker plate that's where the expense is.... bill
Well the website does indicate that heat buildup is a problem, which is what I suspected.

I don't have anything against this kind of blade, other than the cost at 175 a pop it's far too fragile for normal hobby use.
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post #14 of 27 Old 05-09-2011, 01:57 AM Thread Starter
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"run the blade high, and IMO, the cut is better, and the lift on the front of the cut is minimized"

I don't doubt you, I'm just trying to understand the physics of the blade lift. I have to ask, why?

Use the right tool for the job.

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post #15 of 27 Old 05-09-2011, 04:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rrich View Post
"run the blade high, and IMO, the cut is better, and the lift on the front of the cut is minimized"

I don't doubt you, I'm just trying to understand the physics of the blade lift. I have to ask, why?
It's pretty simple. If the blade is just high enough to expose the teeth, it produces the longest cutting angle (and contact) to the wood, and produces an upward lift. The length and angle is more "upward" than if the blade was high. With the blade high, the cutting length is shorter, less contact with the blade, and the cutting action (angle) is more downward, producing a downward force.

The shorter cutting angle produces less friction, and the blade being high cools better, and dispenses debris more freely.








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post #16 of 27 Old 05-09-2011, 07:15 AM
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Cabinetman's right about the physics of the blade when raised higher ... cools better and there's more downward force, but I'll add that the tooth geometry of each blade is different so they all respond a little differently to the same set of variables. Many of the premium blades run tight side clearances to give a nice polished edge, but can also be more prone to burning in some materials in some situations. Running the blade a little higher can help reduce the burning but you may loose some of that polished edge effect. It all really depends on the blade configuration, number of teeth, the material, objective, etc.

Last edited by knotscott; 05-09-2011 at 07:44 AM.
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post #17 of 27 Old 05-09-2011, 07:16 AM
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Yup, physics is involved

Just like on the "dreaded RAS" some folks call them "evil", the first teeth entering the workpiece when pulled out from behind the fence tend to push it down and into the fence and table. If you were to push the saw into the work from front to rear, the first teeth to contact the work would tend to lift it off the table. That's why those in the know always pull their RAS from the rear to the front.
It's about the physics involved, not a personal preference or an opinion. bill
BYT there is a whole lot of physics involved in cutter operation and blade efficiency as well as just managing heavy and awkward workpieces with tipping points and all. BTDT

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post #18 of 27 Old 05-09-2011, 04:10 PM
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I have one and I made a splitter for it that mounts to the zero clearance insert. Cuts very nice and I get about 2 1/2 inches or so max cutting depth. You have to put a dado set in the saw and raise it under the zero insert and make room for the shoulder, stopping just shy of 1/16" from the surface. I use it for slicing high dollar wood for pen blanks, lets me get more out of it.
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post #19 of 27 Old 09-27-2012, 09:31 PM
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If you REALLY need a 1/16" saw blade, I bought a 5 1/2" 36T combo blade, carbide-tipped, from Coastal Tool http://www.coastaltool.com/a/ab/mats...matsu****a.htm
It was only $19.50 plus shipping. They come in various arbor-hole sizes. It cuts great but I would be very leery of using a 10" blade due to the possible wobble.

Anyway, for anyone who cares why I needed a 1/16" blade, I needed to make a series of kerfs exactly 1/16" wide and at a 15-degree angle, and this blade was the perfect solution. I'm trying to build a harpsichord, and at the back of each key there is a 1/16" wide pin that rides up and down in a slotted piece called the rack.
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post #20 of 27 Old 09-28-2012, 06:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nostrildamus View Post
I'm trying to build a harpsichord, and at the back of each key there is a 1/16" wide pin that rides up and down in a slotted piece called the rack.
Harpsichord!! We are going to need pictures of that!!
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