Old fashion Pit saw - Woodworking Talk

daxinarian · 10-08-2009, 02:22 PM

Did the old fashioned Pit saws (the ones used to rip logs into planks) cut on both strokes or only on donward stroke? What was their tooth profile like?

Thanks,
Dax

**Daren** · 10-08-2009, 02:58 PM

They cut on both strokes. The sawyer (on top) had to guide the cut, usually snapped with a chalkline and cut on the upstroke too. At first blush the pitmans jobs sounds like it would be the worst, being down in the hole eating all the sawdust. But the downstroke cut using our own weight would make for easier sawing for sure. (still hard work though

, and he didn't get a breeze if there was one)

I am not sure of the tooth profile, never saw one in person. But it would have cutters and rakers just like a 2 man bucking saw (or modern chainsaw) for making the cut and dragging the sawdust out of the kerf. I do know not only did the profiles evolve over time, heck they where used for 1000's of years. And too I would say a good portion of them where made by a smith, so each maker probably had their own style.

I have a couple pictures of one of my old 2 man bucking saws (5'-6") sharpened up and ready to go here someplace. I did a quick search and came up with nada, if I find it later I will add it. The cutters and rakers I would guess to be similar, but the set and grind would be different just like the difference between a cross cut handsaw and a ripping one since milling is ripping. And too I have a few of those 2 man bucking saws and none of the teeth/rakers are the same even on them, so that goes towards my thinking that the pitsaws will all be different too.

**Daren** · 10-08-2009, 03:20 PM

I found the picture in this thread where we were discussing stuff like this (actually motorizing a bucking saw and what-not) Bucking saw talk

There are 2 cutters, offset from each other with a raker between each pair of cutters. From that angle you can't see the tooth set, but the teeth with the shiney cutting face are bent away from the centerline of the saw. They are just a triangle with a flat back and a cutting bevel on one side. Make sense ?

BHOFM · 10-08-2009, 04:32 PM

Start a fight here!

I have seen a pit saw in action. They only cut
on the down stroke. The top man guides the
saw and the pit man uses his weight to make
the cut. Then the top man just raises the saw
back up. It would be rough to bring it up and
cut at the same time. They were very wide and
some over ten feet.

I am sure people used what they had and a
large bucksaw would do the job.

http://www.fullchisel.com/blog/?p=202

**Daren** · 10-08-2009, 06:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BHOFM

Start a fight here!

No fight here. While I have seen old photos and text with a whip saw used in a pit that cuts on both strokes...you're right the vast majority I found out trying to research and if not refute at least provide examples are like you pictured/described. I was thinking more of a 2 man frame saw (specifically made for milling), which is a ripping saw and cuts both ways. I tried to find a video and link it of Roy Underhill at a traditional (Swedish settlement era deal I think) milling lumber with another guy using a frame saw in a pit saw type setup...but that is neither here nor there. I concede most pit saws only cut on the down stroke.

Gerry KIERNAN · 10-20-2009, 09:32 AM

Sounds like a tough way to make a living, or lumber. Glad they invented chainsaws, band saws, gang saws, etc. etc.

Gerry

daxinarian · 10-21-2009, 05:42 PM

Thanks for the helpfull info guys.

I guess what I am really after is a tooth profile for a rip saw that cuts on both strokes (much smaller scale than the pit saw, it was the only example I could think of at the time)

slabmaster · 10-22-2009, 10:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by daxinarian

Thanks for the helpfull info guys.

I guess what I am really after is a tooth profile for a rip saw that cuts on both strokes (much smaller scale than the pit saw, it was the only example I could think of at the time)

Are you talking about a one man saw instead of a pitsaw?

daxinarian · 10-22-2009, 02:16 PM

Its going to be a smaller saw used for ripping boards/logs less than 12" accross.

slabmaster · 10-23-2009, 09:33 AM

Are you planning to motorizing this saw?

daxinarian · 11-04-2009, 04:36 PM

ummm, maybe... I don't mean to be obtuse, but public disclosure of an idea makes it more difficult to patent/license

MuseumWood · 03-14-2010, 04:17 PM

Pit sawing is hard work, but better to be in the pit. You may miss a breeze, but a pit dug below frost level tends to be pretty cool - close to the mean daily temp for wherever you are: 54 F in Maryland! In the winter 54 can feel pretty warm, especially if you are out of the wind!

The teeth I have seen are simple triangles filed to rip, and only on the down stroke to take advantage of the weight of the saw. I did get some hands-on at Williamsburg and was amazed at the rate of cutting. The top-man has to lift for each stroke and does most of the steering (his handle is even called a "tiller"). The pit man has to be able to loosen the box with his handles, slip it off and then catch the tip when the top man drops it down to him. With a good team it is almost without delay.

ACP · 03-14-2010, 11:18 PM

That looks like killer work. No wonder there were no fat people back in the day. Our Dairy Queens in town have a lot of decorations of old pictures of their first establishments and lines of people outside. Not a fatty in the bunch. It's almost like seeing the downfall of America captured in a picture. I often ponder this as I eat my large hot fudge sunday with extra hot fudge. I don't know anything about pit saws, but it is amazing what tools were used to build this great nation and the grit it took to do it.

Mizer · 03-15-2010, 01:32 PM

I have been involved in living history for quite a few years and one year we did a trestle sawing demonstration. It was a lot of work and we were not very experienced so needless to say we did not produce very much lumber.
I have heard that when the modern sawmill replaced the pit saw that most pits were split up and sold as fence post holes.

**Daren** · 03-15-2010, 01:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mizer

I have heard that when the modern sawmill replaced the pit saw that most pits were split up and sold as fence post holes.

**TexasTimbers** · 03-15-2010, 03:27 PM

It's official. Mizer is one of us. That's some kind of funny right there.

MuseumWood · 03-15-2010, 08:23 PM

Mizer is quite correct. You have to use black locust posts, though. Splitting the pit is really tough so you want a wood that will last longer than the hole itself!

If I remember correctly, we were getting almost 2 inches of kerf per stroke in oak! And that was with a brand new-never been abused guy in the pit! The big thing is technique, right amount of pressure, cutting angle, lifting to help the top man. A sawyer had a lot to learn!