Handsaws - Woodworking Talk

**Daren** · 10-23-2007, 06:24 PM

I used to not like them very much. I have some cool old tools for sharpening them, that was my problem...dull saws. I made a little one minute video to have on my website, I thought maybe some handsaw guys/gals here might like this. I didn't know if many have ever seen one of these? It is an old Foley Belsaw retoother, it stomps the old teeth off and cuts new ones. A guy brought a very old saw over, it had great steel but was dull. He also wanted a different size tooth cut. It was a 12 tpi and he wanted 8 tpi, no problemo

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lkeLXXwxRek

The machine normally sets on the bench, but trying to video it I set the retoother on the floor and the camera on the bench. I don't know, I think it is cool. I like playing with my toys, er tools.

vinnyb76 · 10-23-2007, 06:54 PM

hello daren,
thats a great tool youve got there,ive never seen one before,does it set the teeth as well or is that done manually?it looks like the latter.

**Daren** · 10-23-2007, 07:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vinnyb76

hello daren,
does it set the teeth as well or is that done manually?it looks like the latter.

I can set the teeth with a different machine I have. But usually just by hand, I can be more accurate that way, takes longer but by hand I get a better job.

**TexasTimbers** · 10-23-2007, 08:49 PM

That's cool. I could see the old teeth piling up on the floor. I have a couple Sandviks and several old Stanleys that needs to go in that mythical box of dulls I'm allegedly sending you one of these old rainy days.

**Daren** · 10-23-2007, 09:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TexasTimbers

I could see the old teeth piling up on the floor.

Yea you can can't you. I retoothed 3 saw today (rare, big day for me and the machine

), that was the second one, there was already a little pile when I started taping. I did not like the first video so I deleted it off the camera and tried again.

The "carrier bars" have a step and pawl system that pushes the saw through the right distance between cutter strikes. Every time the wheel turns the saw moves and the cutter comes down on the shear plate for the next tooth. I just change the little rail on the back of the carrier for the desired tpi. I think machine is older than I am.

WonderMonkey · 10-24-2007, 12:05 AM

That is a cool tool/toy. So you use the saw and when it is dull you run it through. I assume after a while you have to throw the saw out and get a new one?

**Daren** · 10-24-2007, 12:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WonderMonkey

. So you use the saw and when it is dull you run it through. I assume after a while you have to throw the saw out and get a new one?

When it is dull it gets sharpened. This is retoothing...on a 60 year old saw that has been sharpened a couple (20?)

times. A GOOD saw can last a lifetime or 2. I have one of my Grandads handsaws that I use regularly, sharpest one in my shop. No they don't get throw away if you know a guy who can make them sharp

.

WonderMonkey · 10-24-2007, 01:05 AM

I see. Thanks for the info. I learned something today!

vinnyb76 · 10-24-2007, 08:07 AM

you could even try making a saw or two daren would be an interesting project to do.

**Daren** · 10-24-2007, 08:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vinnyb76

you could even try making a saw or two daren would be an interesting project to do.

I have, I made a little pull saw for dowel cutting out of a piece of broken bandmill blade. I ground the big teeth off and cut little teeth back on with the retoother.

**joasis** · 10-24-2007, 09:12 AM

I remember it like yesterday, the says of the saw sharpening shops...my Grandfather used to take several circular blades in a month to get sharpened and set. Any of you remember the Belsaw Bulletins that came out? Had all the adds for the sharpening business, sawmill, locksmithing, and small engine repair. I can still remember the day the 12 inch Belsaw planer arrived, in a crate. I am not sure, but I think my Grandfather sent our 48 inch blade up to them to be hammered and inspected, even though our mill wasn't a Belsaw.

By the way, I do not own a handsaw of any kind, or any sawblades that aren't carbide tipped. I even run carbides in my 56 inch blade on the sawmill. I do resharpen them, since they are pricey, at $5 a piece X 52 of them. The saw shop closed long ago, and I haven't heard of one anywhere close to me. Foley bought out Belsaw, Timberking is a stand alone company without the correspondence schools and builds the mills and Woodmaster planers, etc. Ebay shopping can locate nearly every machine ever made by Belsaw at give away prices....how times change.

**Daren** · 10-24-2007, 10:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by joasis

....how times change.

Yep, they did. The consumer can buy a cheap imported circular saw blade at the Big Box (where they buy their lumber, hardware...) for about the same $ it cost for me to sharpen one. (I do sharpen carbide circular saw blades) And people are already at the Big Box, one stop shopping (and may pick up a "day laborer" in the parking lot too

)

The old days and old ways are gone. I have a sign that used to hang in the old local lumberyard "Sharpening Service" that came with the business. That lumber yard is long since closed, soon after the sharpening business closed too that I bought all my tools from (they had been in storage).

I have my little niche, self contained lumber yard/sharpening business. Am I getting rich ?, far from it...do I love it, very much

You really don't own a handsaw?

Kingfisher · 10-24-2007, 11:45 AM

Daren, one of the things we did was have our sharpener retooth our cheap "shark bite" saw, the tempered teeth ones from lowes. Everyone buys them but when the get dull or chipped teeth their shot so just grind them down and put any teeth you want on. Handy for us to have those small saw in 8,12 and 16 tpi. The right one for any job.

Hack · 10-24-2007, 02:21 PM

Pretty COOL stuff there Daren...

For anybody interested, there's one on E-Bay for about 80 bux plus shipping...

http://cgi.ebay.com/Automatic-saw-sh...QQcmdZViewItem

**Daren** · 10-24-2007, 02:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hack

For anybody interested, there's one on E-Bay for about 80 bux

Yep, it won't work without the carriers and ratchet bars though. Gotta find them, you can on eBay some times (usually for more money than the machine) I would have to see the cutter (not easy to get). There is a little hard rubber wheel that is on the motor shaft that contacts the cast iron big wheel. I had to replace one recently $30

, they go bad if they set (like that one).
Still worth $80 even if it is for parts and you have to buy 2...in the 2003 Foley catalog, I have one right here in front of me, they were $1759.00 new.

**joasis** · 10-25-2007, 08:32 AM

My Grandfather had an old, traditional carpenter's chest, and it had slots for 3 handsaws, I think. There was a crosscut saw, a rip saw, and one that had what I would call, a finer tooth and set, I would guess for trim. He also had a brace and bits, carpenter's rule, and the other tools you would expect, block planes, draw knife, etc.....lots of stuff I don't remember. The only thing that was his, that I own now is a framing square.....very worn, and still readable.

No Daren, for real, I do not own a hand saw....closest thing I keep to "hand" anything are wood chisels and hammers. I know some may think using all power tools would make you loose something of the art or tradition, but when I make my living in construction, and time is limited, power tools are always the choice...after all, power or hand, it is the operator that has the inspiration and builds the project. Like hand cutting dovetails....I can/could do it, but why? The satisfaction is the project, not spending hours on something the jigs make happen in minutes. I envy those who have the time to devote to our hobbies,....and I hope to get there someday.

**Daren** · 10-25-2007, 09:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by joasis

but when I make my living in construction, and time is limited, power tools are always the choice..

Yea. When I was still running my plumbing shop it was all power tools, mostly cordless (circular saw, sawzall, drills...) I had an inverter in the truck to charge the batteries. The only hand tool I used was a hammer, but even that stayed in the toolbox if I was doing alot. I used an air framing nailer and roofing gun, the hammer was for a handful of nails here and there.

I used to sub under a general that used Amish carpenters (and block layers) some of them still used handsaws. They kept their own sharpening tools with them, a setter and files were in their tool box. That was a weird deal. Those guys were there when the sun came up and I assume (I went home around supper) they worked until dark because the next morning more work was done than when I left. I reckon if they used power tools they would not have had to work so many hours

.